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Poster: AshesRising Date: May 1, 2008 6:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

"Escaping through the lily fields, I came upon an empty space."

Hello: In the wake of Mr. Albert Hofmann's final trip on Tuesday, my mind has been wandering and wondering. I keep finding it gravitate towards the lyrics above from "The Other One."

How can a space be "empty?" I cannot comprehend that lyric. If one can state that there is a "space," then "something" must be there, right? I would sincerely appreciate it if anyone would let me know their mind about this concept. Thank You.

Next up: "dark" star.....

Reason tatters,
--- AshesRising

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 1, 2008 7:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I just wasted 10 minutes thinking about this which makes me think that the space occupying the area between my ears is quite empty.

good to see you here, hope things are well.

LBo

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Poster: AshesRising Date: May 1, 2008 9:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

elbow1126: ..sorry about wasting your time; I tried to warn you.

I'm lost in space,
--- AshesRising

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 2, 2008 4:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

good point. More evidence of empty space between my ears.

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Poster: barongsong Date: May 3, 2008 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

A very good question my good man. I think in this case the statement of empty space is acutely related to the Law Of SomtinorOther in which it is clearly stated that every action has to have an equal or OTHER reaction and in this particular case the it is my belief that the said person found themselves smack dab in the middle of a yin yang symbol which subsequently left a smoking crater of their mind. It seems pretty clear to me at least.

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Poster: craven714 Date: May 2, 2008 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXKvVeVtXg

my take on it~~

(and yes, sorry, i would even break the "law" for ashes)
peace

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Poster: snore Date: May 2, 2008 6:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I believe this might help you in your search, and it could also explain Amy Whitehouse. http://www.space.com/spacewatch/080502-ns-moon-beehive.html

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Poster: NostraDamnIt Date: May 1, 2008 6:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

When in doubt, get higher!

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: May 2, 2008 2:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

AshesRising,

What constitutes 'sense' in this life? Is 'empty space' a tautology or even a logical tautology? Will rtw enlighten us on that aspect? Was Bobby an autistic savant who had fathomed the mysteries of theoretical particle physics and postulated the concept of Dark Energy 30 years before it was even a gleam in Stephen Hawking's eye? Do you have to take a test to get a poetic licence? How do you like your blue eyed boy now, mister life?

These and many other questions have been provoked by your post, you agent provocateur, you. Damn you to heaven!

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Poster: snore Date: May 2, 2008 2:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I thought space was the final frontier.

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: May 2, 2008 3:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Thats true. But 'empty space' is the penultimate frontier.
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/krauss06/krauss06.2_index.html

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 3:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Alan Im glad to see you making regular appearances here once more. I hope that the health issues that have kept you from us are now fully resolved and behind you.

I guess that Byroniuss adept copying and pasting rather pre-empts anything I might have to say on the subject of space, empty or other wise, although I will say that 'empty space' a concept I have no trouble with. What is certainly more mind-stretching is trying to have even the vaguest of vague notions as to what it is that space itself expands, or perhaps stretches is more correct, into. Consider that time and space are bound unto the very fabric of the physical universe. As the universe expands from its Big Bang point of origin is more space created for it to expand into - or is there just the same 'amount' of space that there was in the beginning and it just gets streeetttcchhhedd? Is space infinitely elastic or will it one day reach its elastic limit and snap back? Does space have elastic potential energy? Is that tied up with dark energy and vaccum energy? What lies beyond in the regions that the wavefront of the expanding universe has yet to reach? Some say the universe is infinite and that there is no outside I believe thats dodging the question. I believe I'll have another cup of coffee.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 2, 2008 3:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I believe you have had enough coffee.

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Poster: byronious Date: May 2, 2008 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I don't believe the Grateful Dead or anyone on this forum has any knowledge of the physics attempted to be discussed here. why can't an empty space just be an empty space?

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: May 2, 2008 7:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Hi Rob. Thanks. I'm fine now apart from the fact that I'm addicted to this space. When I'm not here, I miss the music and the ol' banter. Sad innit? How about you? Bearing up under the existential chaos, I trust. Boris The Mayor? That's what I call mind-stretching.
Apparently, Causal Dynamical Triangulation is flavour of the month in physicistical circles these days, according to the New Scientist. I prefer Cryptical Envelopment myself. My view of the universe was severely warped after seeing the end of Men In Black.
Astronomy joke: Why do astronomers hate cosmologists? Because astronomers do all the counting while cosmologists do all the thinking. Maybe you have to be a cosmologist to get that one. I hope you'll forgive as it's friday afternoon! May your weekend be jolly and not too cosmological.
ps just read oor willie's post and still chortling!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 2, 2008 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I seem to recall reading somewhere that after Hubble had determined that the universe was expanding and essentially proving Einstein wrong (Einstein's equation predicted expansion but apparently he had troubles dealing with this notion so he added a constant in to rectify this, the Hubbles hosted the Einsteins at the observatory and showed them the telescope that allowed Hubble to make his observations. Upon seeing the telescope apparently Mrs. Einstein quipped some thing to the effect of "you need all that to make your discoveries, Albert just writes formulas on the back of envelopes." To me that has always summed up the difference between astronomers and cosmologists.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 8:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Wasn't it Einstein who said something along the lines of 'Logic will take you from A to B,but imagination will take you anywhere.' And where would cosmology be if it wasn't for Einstein imagining what it would be like to ride on a light beam?

Moses came riding up on a quasar indeed.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 2, 2008 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Interesting that you should bring up that song lyric in this thread, as Ashes is fond of pointing out that Bobby changed the original lyric from guitar to quasar. Perhaps Bobby is a closet cosmologist, trying to help us all comprehend the empty and not so empty spaces that we encounter and yet do not understand. Maybe not.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 2, 2008 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Easy on the combination of Bobby and closets. Someone will inevitably say something like the only reason Bobby is still in his closet is that Richard Simmons has locked him in it until he gives Richard his shorts back. Someone. Not me, but someone.

As for space and all the concepts that are associtated with it, I say just watch a couple of episodes of Lost In Space, and all your questions will be answered. "Danger, Will Robinson" indeed.

Don't you love how I can elevate any conversation?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 9:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Now why is that you're so attracted to closets, and to emergence from same? To say nothing of your fascination for inappropriately shorts-clad aging rock stars? Some might begin to wonder at your motivations. Not I, of course. I stopped wondering a while back.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 2, 2008 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Well, based on your packages you keep sending me, I can see why.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2008-05-02 16:46:00

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Right then - I'm off for a stiff one then I'm going to cook pasta. I do hope the limp spaghetti won't remind me of you...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 2, 2008 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

A stiff one? Let me guess, you'll be off to the Prince's Reach Around Pub (you know, the one where you can only get in through the back door) for a quick one.


OK, I think this has gone as far as it should.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 2, 2008 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Leave it to you two to conjure images of Mr. Smith running with hands in the air shrieking about limp noodles and the danger therein...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 2, 2008 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Well, in Rob's version Smith's hands aren't up in the air.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: May 2, 2008 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

Happy to see you guys are keeping it real, pretty soon you'll be arguing about whats better 69 or 79 . . .

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 2, 2008 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Never fear, Smith is here ...

If Rob was Canadian he'd obviously pick 79...you know, so they both can watch the hockey game.

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Poster: AshesRising Date: May 2, 2008 3:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Jerrob Hungar: Thank You for your response ...or, more accurately, your questions -- rhetorical or knot. '

The term seems like an oxymoron to me, however I understand how your doors of perception lead towards its tautological hue as well. Another ripple in "still" water, I guess.

"Words can only carve the space /
We fill with expectation..." ["Jack O'Roses"]

Let me rise, let me fall, let me climb, let me crawl
but let me in,
--- AshesRising

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Poster: ducats Date: May 2, 2008 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

There is another universe in the space that most others think is my fingernail. I obviously stole that from Animal House.

Along the same vain a friend and I invented (while tripping obviously) match world - this was the entire life cycle of a universe that existed inside/during the flame of a match when struck - ending ofcourse when the flame went out.

sign sign everywhere a sign

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Poster: northstar dead Date: May 2, 2008 5:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

You just don't get this kind thought any where else.

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: May 2, 2008 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Hi Ashes. I'll see your oxymoron and raise you a pleonasm.
Reading Hunter's journal from 6.23.06 - notes on turning 65 http://www.hunterarchive.com/files/newjournal/56journal_2006.html#anchor26253509 and wondering what you were up to.
Sorry about all the questions. Don't ya love it when people answer a question with a question? You can blame ganges! After I read how he'd tried to empty his mind, thought I'd give it a go and all that stuff just crawled into my hand, honest.

An excerpt from:
Down The Road
Lyrics: Robert Hunter

From the corner of my eye I saw the sun explode
I didn't look directly 'cause it would have burned my soul
When the smoke and thunder cleared enough to look around
I heard a sweet guitar lick, an old familiar sound
I heard a laugh I recognised come rolling from the earth
Saw it rise into the skies like lightning giving birth
It sounded like Garcia but I couldn't see the face
Just the beard and the glass and a smile on empty space

http://www3.clearlight.com/~acsa/intro.htm

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Poster: AshesRising Date: May 2, 2008 5:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Jerrob Hungar: I was hoping that someone would find the "Down the Road" reference... I glad it was you. Are you aware of the story behind the composition of that verse?

Thanks a lot for the journal link: "Who will walk it is a mystery, but it will be no chance alliance."

The empty space of my so-called "life" has been immensely enriched by meeting both you and ganges along the Way (cool insight by ganges earlier, hey?),
--- AshesRising

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Poster: Jerrob Hungar Date: May 3, 2008 4:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Dear AshesRising,
It seems so long ago now, when I was sitting in my office at work, playing with this mysterious new resource called the Internet and I remember feeling like a child with a fantastic new toy. The joy of exploration and discovery. I distinctly remember typing 'Grateful Dead' in the search box and my excitement growing as the results scrolled back like a revelation. I think it was 'Deadshow' I clicked on first and lost my breath when I saw the treasures displayed there. It was as though a warm and powerful light was shining on and within me. And to this day I still feel blessed that I found the Grateful Dead and they found me.
I still get affirmation of this feeling from the kindred souls that visit here, especially yours, Ashes. Thank you.

No I'm not aware of the story behind that verse. Other than the notes on Clearlight about the Martin Luther King verse and the account of the Further '99 show (wonder if there's a recording of that show somewhere), I don't know much about the song, except that the words are brimming with emotion. Haven't even heard the song, I'm sorry to say.

I hope you'll indulge me a little more because I just want to throw in a mention of Leaving Terrapin. This is another song which I've never heard except in my imagination. I find the words very moving (including the original version) and have always wondered why it was never played. I imagine this was one time the music faltered and Jerry's muse refrained from shining some light.
Alan

'Although the stars have shifted,
we're not lost
The wind alone itself
decides our course
Seems such a long time
since we saw any land
but a seabird brought
this olive branch
and dropped it in my hand'

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 2, 2008 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: flowers, spaces, bus rides...great song

Like Rob, I have no problem with the phrase, and find it like so many others, pleasing in its relation to the story line (such as it is), and as with so many other "cryptical" lyrics of the early years, one that "works" when you sing it...

In a general sense, I think that Hunter et al (Weir in this case) often wrote without spending as much time on straight-up "meaning" as on euphonics (eg, CCSunflower).

But in this example, lily fields containing an empty space to which a bus can arrive makes good sense to me. It can be one devoid of flowers, or metaphorically, what is necessary for the "bus" to come (ie, to pick you up, given we all assume, as told shortly, that the bus is driven by Neal). Assuming any bus ride of this sort requires we clear our mind and our physical surroundings of any and all limitations for the ride...hence the space is something that can "tremble and explode" but again, just to allow a starting point for the ride.

Or maybe it just sounded nice.

FYI:

"Weir: Interesting story with "The Other One." Uh, it was one of the first tunes I ever wrote. Actually, we came up with the "map," basically, for the song in a rehearsal somewhere, just kickin' stuff around. And then I took it and started shaping it up, and things like that. We for the song in a rehearsal somewhere, just kickin' stuff around. And then I took it and started shaping it up, and things like that. We went on a tour, in the Pacific Northwest, and I was, you know, I was not done with it, I was wondering what the song was about, and then one night it sort of came to me. Basically, it's a little, a little fantastic, uh, episode about my meeting Neal Cassady. I wrote the two verses - that's all there is to it, really, is two verses - and, uh, then, uh, we played the gig that night and came home the next day and when we came home we learned the news that Neal had died that night..."

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Poster: ganges Date: May 2, 2008 12:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

"empty space" - these lyrics might have to be understood in the context of the time they were written, Mr. Hoffmannn's discovery got people into empty spaces without thoughts, attachments, "worldly" anything - just "pure BEING" - I don't know if this makes sense though, just came to my mind, after I tried to empty it!

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Poster: byronious Date: May 1, 2008 7:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Space


Definition: Space
Space
Noun
1. The unlimited 3-dimensional expanse in which everything is located; "they tested his ability to locate objects in space".

2. An empty area (usually bounded in some way between things); "the architect left space in front of the building"; "they stopped at an open space in the jungle"; "the space between his teeth".

3. An area reserved for some particular purpose; "the laboratory's floor space".

4. A blank character used to separate successive words in writing or printing; "he said the space is the most important character in the alphabet".

5. The interval between two times; "the distance from birth to death"; "it all happened in the space of 10 minutes".

6. A blank area; "write your name in the space provided".

7. Any region in space outside the Earth's atmosphere; "the astronauts walked in space without a tether".

8. (mathematics) any set of points that satisfy a set of postulates of some kind; "assume the vector space is finite dimensional".

9. One of the areas between or below or above the lines of a musical staff; "the spaces are the notes F-A-C-E".

10. : (printing) a block of type without a raised letter; used for spacing between words.

Verb
1. Place at intervals; "Space the interviews so that you have some time between the different candidates".

Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.



Date "space" was first used in popular English literature: sometime before 1010. (references)

webster's

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 1, 2008 10:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

Music is the silence (space) between notes. Claude Debussy.

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Poster: byronious Date: May 2, 2008 4:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

"white sounds" i believe is what they're called

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 4:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

I reckon that Debussy quote is one of those superficially profound yet ultimately meaningless aphorisms that are beloved of a certain class of hippy-dippy dipshit - a type of person that of course bears no resemblance to the class acts that inhabit this here forum.

Debussy also said:

The colour of my soul is iron-grey and sad bats wheel about the steeple of my dreams.

Which is, y'know, much more to the point. Sad bats, I ask you, does it get more tragic?

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: May 2, 2008 2:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

This is me actively ignoring this post

In c.350 BC, Aristotle proclaims, in opposition to Leucippus, the dictum horror vacui or “nature abhors a vacuum”. Aristotle reasoned that in a complete vacuum, infinite speed would be possible because motion would encounter no resistance. Since he did not accept the possibility of infinite speed, he decided that a vacuum was equally impossible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_thermodynamics

;~)

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 2, 2008 8:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: {Ignore this post...non-sense] ..".I came upon an empty space...."(?)

"Well, Space is here. Space is where your ass is." -William S. Burroughs, "The Place Of Dead Roads"

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 2, 2008 9:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Here comes SDH

Hmmm, puts that "tremble and explode" point in a "whole" new light, eh?

Just wait til SDH links this to black holes and infinite space...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: May 2, 2008 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Here comes SDH

Comin', comin', comin' around, comin' around, comin' around in a circle

No - I don't want to think about that one too much...